Wife has a guide dog Labrador trained from a puppy incredibly well behaved and when on harness total worker focused and its interesting what she does and doesnt play with when not working. She has a stuffed animal that she sleeps with and never carries anywhere then another that she does. She loves a donut nylabone but not a bone shaped one. Shes also learned that there are toys she can bring over like a tennis ball to you that will distract YOU and therefor she can get a sneak of a lick off your plate. We’ve had to correct that a few times but she is just too smart she keeps learning new methods.
The change in behaviour when a service dog goes on duty (or off duty) is always fascinating. Most people I know, including myself, cannot focus instantly when starting work, nor can they relax immediately after work.
And service dogs do not even know the shift plan of the day. They just do the job. But maybe that’s their survival strategy, to use every available slot for relaxation because they don’t know when they will have to work again.
BTW what are the dog‘s usual working hours, how long can it stay focused while guiding?
It probably isn’t accurate to classify it as working and relaxing, in the way we humans see “going to work”. I’ve never worked with a service dog but I have with “working” dogs. They almost universally enjoy and prefer working to “relaxing”. The reason people need to take their dogs on long walks and play with them in the park is really to simulate working. Dogs like tasks, focusing and following a leader, and having a structure of being a pack member fulfilling whatever goal.
Agreed. A better word might be "focused". A dog has one set of behaviors when focused, and another when not.
When I research a topic, whether it's an engineering diagram or looking up a half-remembered recipe on my phone, I immediately engage. It's fulfilling, not tedious. It can lead to "being in the zone".
It doesn't mean it's not taxing, but there's definitely a positive feedback from my system. Probably the same feeling if you're watching the water for a fish to spear, or watching your dad to see how he spears fish, or watching your mom to see how her lips move when she says "Mom". Or the ball to see when it's thrown and where, or if cars are coming because then you need to stay still and keep your human from proceeding.
The situation of ptsd service dogs is somewhat different, even more so if its client has to earn a living. A big chunk of the dog’s work could be to observe their client and to act if (and only if) dissociation happens (ideally to intervene before the client dissociates). While overseeing the client’s wellbeing, they have to stay out of the way of the business as much as possible (especially during meetings, seeing customers etc).
Apart from the clients workplace, the service dog will be on and off duty for the rest of the day depending on the specific needs of its client. It follows them wherever they go (supermarkets, doctors, museums, whatever).
The dog can play or relax during breaks, or in the evening, when the client is in a safer/less stressful environment.
Guide dogs really are on another level. It's always wild to see how they can switch so seamlessly between "serious work mode" and "clever little gremlin with a mission."
Our golden retriever knows the difference between her tug toys, plushie toys and chew toys. When we ask her to put her toys away she used to only collect the plushies and put them in the basket. We had to do extra training to get her to associate clean up with all types.
They can learn a lot but it's hard work. Also, "intelligence" and "obeying commands" are very orthogonal in dogs. In fact, sometimes a very intelligent dog is very difficult to train.
Our 75/25 Australian Shepherd/Poodle mix we like to call "loophole puppy" since she has the Aussie "lawful good" traits, mixed in with a mind that makes everything a game of how she can adhere to the letter of the law and still get what she wants.
One example that comes to mind is planting new grass seed on the lawn, and she was not allowed in the grass. She pretty much instantly figured out the new rule, but would constantly test it. Drop her ball a foot into the grass, then lay down on the sidewalk and crawl into the grass keeping her hind legs on the pavement. Still on the sidewalk!
It's a constant battle of wits trying to keep her from figuring out new "loopholes" or grey areas we don't anticipate. Also finding her "jobs" to do so she doesn't make stuff up on her own.
I've done this. The goal is to first demonstrate and reward them, so they associate good feelings with the whole thing. Step two is to kind of put the toy in their mouth, drag them over to where you wanna place it, then make them release it, and if everything worked, you reward them. Do this a couple of times, associate with some command like "clean up" and after a while they'll understand that if they do that they get an reward. After a while the reward can be switched from candies to head-pats, cuddles or whatever, and they should still be able to do it.
You can apply this to pretty much anything and if they're somewhat clever they can do it. Age doesn't seem to matter either, I've done this with 10 year old dogs too.
Huskies excell in organising a pack of usually smaller dogs. Otherwise they're more of a domesticated wolf than a dog. Also a rodent and bird killing machine, cat chasers when not kept in check. That's anytime they're further than a leash length from their owner.
I like them, but would probably never own one unless I'll ever own and regulary use a dog sled.
We've spent decades assuming dogs were just reacting to tone or simple repetition, but here they are casually doing toddler-level categorization by function... just from playtime
I have a doodle and he knows each of his toys by name; the monkey, the ball, the lama etc. He's very picky with what he wants to play with so if he brings a specific toy over and you choose another one he'll respond by whining and make a big deal about it lol
My dog knows (though she's probably forgotten as now she's old and we don't practice any more) her toys by name and actions by name too. If I say "point to the ball" she'll paw at the ball, if I say "fetch the bone" she'll do that.
I didn't even know it was possible before I tried and saw that she actually responded to it. Amazing.
(slightly off-topic) Many years ago, I got a puppy to keep my older dog company (it was as disaster as she was an over-excited nightmare and in the end I gave her to a friend, where she lived a happy life with two other over-excited dogs).
The older dog was sat on the stairs, sulking, as I played with the puppy (he was always very moody).
I showed her a squeaky ball; she liked the squeak so I tried to get her to bite it and make the sound. But she just wasn't getting it. Then the other dog charged down the stairs, stamped on the ball to make it squeak, then went back upstairs to continue his sulk.
I was playing with my friend's dog who liked to bring you sticks. I asked him to bring my a stick, and when he did, I just as a joke said, "no, silly, not that stick, the one by your ball." and was absolutely shocked when he dropped the stick and went and retrieved the one by the ball.
Our German Shepherd is as particular about her toys as her food.
She mainly likes squeaky plush toys, doesn't like rope toys at all. She also likes tennis balls which is a completely different game to the ones she plays with the plushies.
The smell factor might explain why she initially turns completely off a favourite toy after it goes through the wash.
I guess it’s an even bigger generalization; not just: “is this a fetch toy or not”, but: “which of the available objects me and the human can use for a given activity”.
Also, I now suspect that dogs that selected “pull” toys for fetching (or vice versa) didn’t care about the experiment and only wanted to play with these toys in that specific way.
Several years ago, two people were leaving the local dog park with their respective dogs. Person A loaded Dog A into his dark blue Jeep Wrangler and began to pull out. Person B was walking to his dark blue Suzuki Samurai. Dog B looked over, saw the Jeep driving away, and thought it was Person B abandoning her. She took off running after the wrong vehicle.
I've known dogs to identify the sound of their favorite human's car engine pulling up, but that was the first time I saw a dog identify a vehicle by color (dark blue) and general category (jeep-style).
I have known a lot of smart critters, but to stay on topic, there was Lefty, a very large mackenzie husky who belonged ,heart and soul,to my girlfriend, and lived in terror of bumping into things and/or clearing off a table if he should wag his tail, lefty and I were strangers, except when in or near the water, and he would swim and dive with me, and on one particular day he began wading out into a small river and picking up rocks from the bottom and carrying the ashore, which he placed in two disticnct compact piles, one for large rocks, the size of his head, and another pile 20' away for small rocks he could hold completly in his mouth, the is whole procedure was spontainious, and went on for over an hour till he had two good sized neat piles, one of only large rocks carried precariously, and the other of small rocks gotten somewhat easier, but still his head was under water while getting all of them.
There was another large dog in the household and we had a strict no leash, no tied dogs, no collar policy and for the most part they ate what we ate, and were generaly on there own recognisence, and so on the occasion of lefty's rock piling project, it was given due respect and we waited till he was done and he never did it again, and didn't have toys, or balls,play stick, or anything else, and was otherwise giant,reserved,quiet,except near water or in large open spaces around water.
This post is downvoted but intruiging to me. Because a large part of this thread is people explaining what their pet can do, has learned, has been willing to learn. The thing that came to my mind is that we are interpreting the dogs behaviour, but that the dogs are interpreting our behaviour as well. We like to play with dogs, but the dog has separate preferences as well. Some dogs not only can classify, but also have their humans act differently according to their preferences. And that is exactly the Uplift angle! Who uplifts whom?
Wife has a guide dog Labrador trained from a puppy incredibly well behaved and when on harness total worker focused and its interesting what she does and doesnt play with when not working. She has a stuffed animal that she sleeps with and never carries anywhere then another that she does. She loves a donut nylabone but not a bone shaped one. Shes also learned that there are toys she can bring over like a tennis ball to you that will distract YOU and therefor she can get a sneak of a lick off your plate. We’ve had to correct that a few times but she is just too smart she keeps learning new methods.
The change in behaviour when a service dog goes on duty (or off duty) is always fascinating. Most people I know, including myself, cannot focus instantly when starting work, nor can they relax immediately after work.
And service dogs do not even know the shift plan of the day. They just do the job. But maybe that’s their survival strategy, to use every available slot for relaxation because they don’t know when they will have to work again.
BTW what are the dog‘s usual working hours, how long can it stay focused while guiding?
It probably isn’t accurate to classify it as working and relaxing, in the way we humans see “going to work”. I’ve never worked with a service dog but I have with “working” dogs. They almost universally enjoy and prefer working to “relaxing”. The reason people need to take their dogs on long walks and play with them in the park is really to simulate working. Dogs like tasks, focusing and following a leader, and having a structure of being a pack member fulfilling whatever goal.
Agreed. A better word might be "focused". A dog has one set of behaviors when focused, and another when not.
When I research a topic, whether it's an engineering diagram or looking up a half-remembered recipe on my phone, I immediately engage. It's fulfilling, not tedious. It can lead to "being in the zone".
It doesn't mean it's not taxing, but there's definitely a positive feedback from my system. Probably the same feeling if you're watching the water for a fish to spear, or watching your dad to see how he spears fish, or watching your mom to see how her lips move when she says "Mom". Or the ball to see when it's thrown and where, or if cars are coming because then you need to stay still and keep your human from proceeding.
The situation of ptsd service dogs is somewhat different, even more so if its client has to earn a living. A big chunk of the dog’s work could be to observe their client and to act if (and only if) dissociation happens (ideally to intervene before the client dissociates). While overseeing the client’s wellbeing, they have to stay out of the way of the business as much as possible (especially during meetings, seeing customers etc).
Apart from the clients workplace, the service dog will be on and off duty for the rest of the day depending on the specific needs of its client. It follows them wherever they go (supermarkets, doctors, museums, whatever).
The dog can play or relax during breaks, or in the evening, when the client is in a safer/less stressful environment.
Guide dogs really are on another level. It's always wild to see how they can switch so seamlessly between "serious work mode" and "clever little gremlin with a mission."
Work hard, play hard
Our golden retriever knows the difference between her tug toys, plushie toys and chew toys. When we ask her to put her toys away she used to only collect the plushies and put them in the basket. We had to do extra training to get her to associate clean up with all types.
We had a shih tzu that knew all her toys by name. I would just sit on the couch start asking for toys and she would bring them.
Whenever we got a new toy for her we just had to throw it saying its name a few times and she would know it from then on.
We weren't able to train her on most stuff but her toy game was clutch.
How did you teach a dog to clean up their toys? I've never seen a dog trained beyond normal sit, lie down, heel sort of thing.
They can learn a lot but it's hard work. Also, "intelligence" and "obeying commands" are very orthogonal in dogs. In fact, sometimes a very intelligent dog is very difficult to train.
Our 75/25 Australian Shepherd/Poodle mix we like to call "loophole puppy" since she has the Aussie "lawful good" traits, mixed in with a mind that makes everything a game of how she can adhere to the letter of the law and still get what she wants.
One example that comes to mind is planting new grass seed on the lawn, and she was not allowed in the grass. She pretty much instantly figured out the new rule, but would constantly test it. Drop her ball a foot into the grass, then lay down on the sidewalk and crawl into the grass keeping her hind legs on the pavement. Still on the sidewalk!
It's a constant battle of wits trying to keep her from figuring out new "loopholes" or grey areas we don't anticipate. Also finding her "jobs" to do so she doesn't make stuff up on her own.
So, like humans?
Oppositional Defiant Disorder is just native behavior to some breeds...
I've done this. The goal is to first demonstrate and reward them, so they associate good feelings with the whole thing. Step two is to kind of put the toy in their mouth, drag them over to where you wanna place it, then make them release it, and if everything worked, you reward them. Do this a couple of times, associate with some command like "clean up" and after a while they'll understand that if they do that they get an reward. After a while the reward can be switched from candies to head-pats, cuddles or whatever, and they should still be able to do it.
You can apply this to pretty much anything and if they're somewhat clever they can do it. Age doesn't seem to matter either, I've done this with 10 year old dogs too.
I'm impressed you could train a dog to cleanup toys! It's hard enough with humans.
Yep, but try training a husky to do that. (I'm not a huge fan of either yippie or dramatic pets.)
Huskies excell in organising a pack of usually smaller dogs. Otherwise they're more of a domesticated wolf than a dog. Also a rodent and bird killing machine, cat chasers when not kept in check. That's anytime they're further than a leash length from their owner.
I like them, but would probably never own one unless I'll ever own and regulary use a dog sled.
Love the mental image of her doing selective cleanup like, "Plushies go in the basket, the rest? Not my problem."
We've spent decades assuming dogs were just reacting to tone or simple repetition, but here they are casually doing toddler-level categorization by function... just from playtime
We have a long long history of dramatically underestimating the intelligence of animals and even babies
I have a doodle and he knows each of his toys by name; the monkey, the ball, the lama etc. He's very picky with what he wants to play with so if he brings a specific toy over and you choose another one he'll respond by whining and make a big deal about it lol
My dog knows (though she's probably forgotten as now she's old and we don't practice any more) her toys by name and actions by name too. If I say "point to the ball" she'll paw at the ball, if I say "fetch the bone" she'll do that.
I didn't even know it was possible before I tried and saw that she actually responded to it. Amazing.
(slightly off-topic) Many years ago, I got a puppy to keep my older dog company (it was as disaster as she was an over-excited nightmare and in the end I gave her to a friend, where she lived a happy life with two other over-excited dogs).
The older dog was sat on the stairs, sulking, as I played with the puppy (he was always very moody).
I showed her a squeaky ball; she liked the squeak so I tried to get her to bite it and make the sound. But she just wasn't getting it. Then the other dog charged down the stairs, stamped on the ball to make it squeak, then went back upstairs to continue his sulk.
I was playing with my friend's dog who liked to bring you sticks. I asked him to bring my a stick, and when he did, I just as a joke said, "no, silly, not that stick, the one by your ball." and was absolutely shocked when he dropped the stick and went and retrieved the one by the ball.
If you pointed, they can tell.
Our German Shepherd is as particular about her toys as her food.
She mainly likes squeaky plush toys, doesn't like rope toys at all. She also likes tennis balls which is a completely different game to the ones she plays with the plushies.
The smell factor might explain why she initially turns completely off a favourite toy after it goes through the wash.
I wonder if the dogs are following unconcious cues from their owner, like Clever Hans (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clever_Hans).
EDIT: turns out I should have done some more reading, this was already considered over 20 years ago - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rico_(dog)
I guess it’s an even bigger generalization; not just: “is this a fetch toy or not”, but: “which of the available objects me and the human can use for a given activity”.
Also, I now suspect that dogs that selected “pull” toys for fetching (or vice versa) didn’t care about the experiment and only wanted to play with these toys in that specific way.
Several years ago, two people were leaving the local dog park with their respective dogs. Person A loaded Dog A into his dark blue Jeep Wrangler and began to pull out. Person B was walking to his dark blue Suzuki Samurai. Dog B looked over, saw the Jeep driving away, and thought it was Person B abandoning her. She took off running after the wrong vehicle.
I've known dogs to identify the sound of their favorite human's car engine pulling up, but that was the first time I saw a dog identify a vehicle by color (dark blue) and general category (jeep-style).
I have known a lot of smart critters, but to stay on topic, there was Lefty, a very large mackenzie husky who belonged ,heart and soul,to my girlfriend, and lived in terror of bumping into things and/or clearing off a table if he should wag his tail, lefty and I were strangers, except when in or near the water, and he would swim and dive with me, and on one particular day he began wading out into a small river and picking up rocks from the bottom and carrying the ashore, which he placed in two disticnct compact piles, one for large rocks, the size of his head, and another pile 20' away for small rocks he could hold completly in his mouth, the is whole procedure was spontainious, and went on for over an hour till he had two good sized neat piles, one of only large rocks carried precariously, and the other of small rocks gotten somewhat easier, but still his head was under water while getting all of them. There was another large dog in the household and we had a strict no leash, no tied dogs, no collar policy and for the most part they ate what we ate, and were generaly on there own recognisence, and so on the occasion of lefty's rock piling project, it was given due respect and we waited till he was done and he never did it again, and didn't have toys, or balls,play stick, or anything else, and was otherwise giant,reserved,quiet,except near water or in large open spaces around water.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uplift_(science_fiction) ?
Given this is about dogs, City by Clifford D. Simak really is missing:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_(novel)
This post is downvoted but intruiging to me. Because a large part of this thread is people explaining what their pet can do, has learned, has been willing to learn. The thing that came to my mind is that we are interpreting the dogs behaviour, but that the dogs are interpreting our behaviour as well. We like to play with dogs, but the dog has separate preferences as well. Some dogs not only can classify, but also have their humans act differently according to their preferences. And that is exactly the Uplift angle! Who uplifts whom?
If I recall correctly, Holy Fire had an endearing dog.
I wonder what dogs would thing of us.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nvmxC4Eu3Rc
There's a relevant Rick & Morty episode
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