I really do this that we are in the last years of the Internet as we know it. I daily have interactions online with people who just seem like a frontend for an LLM. Nearly every piece of content I read feels written by an LLM, and every discussion or debate ends up feeling like pitting an LLM up against another LLM. Copy, paste, copy, paste. I mean, to an extent, even tech businesses and competition (e.g. SaaS) have become LLM vs LLM in many respects. It's disheartening to witness, especially as a creative. Either we migrate from screen space back into meat space, so that original thoughts and words are at least somewhat more verifiable, or the internet fundamentally changes to use some sort of proof-of-identity and proof-of-authorship. Ideally both. But tbqh, even something like the Nets in Ender's Game won't really work in the age of AI. Either way, the internet I grew up on seems further and further away, and folks seem okay with proliferating fake realities and fake conversations and fake thoughts. It's all fake. What are we doing?
If you're having daily interactions with people who feel like LLMs, then find a new community to hang out in instead. There's plenty of communities out there that reject LLM content. They're not interested in taking over the world, so they're a little harder to find, but they're out there.
The very term "meat space" or "meat proxy" were terms invented by the terminally online who needed to disconnect a decade ago. Nobody sane talks or thinks like this.
Seems mean to me, to outright dismiss what parent says just because you feel like it's different from how you talk or think.
I'd agree though, most people AFK don't speak or think like that, but to say no one ("sane") does is making you seem more intolerant than "spreading knowledge" or whatever you think you're doing.
I've been having a similar problem. I have roughly the same amount of Karma here, and I used to get the occasional email about a comment and I would get kind of excited. I like engaging with people who have similar interests and as a rule I try and answer questions when people ask them of me.
Now I'm getting a lot of emails that ostensibly are asking for follow-ups but they really just want to pitch me a shitty low-effort browser extension or or trying to rope me into some kind of weird "consulting" gig that is pretty obviously a scam.
It makes me a little sad. Engaging with the community was something I always liked about HN and now its gotten to a point where I am probably just going to remove my email from my profile.
Interesting. I might've received my first one of these last week, from a legit-looking gmail address. They mentioned a comment I made a month ago and immediately asked for a 20-30 minute call next week. Definitely has the "please do free labor for me" smell to it, so I declined the call but offered to have a conversation over email. No response so far. Dunno.
> It makes me a little sad. Engaging with the community was something I always liked about HN and now its gotten to a point where I am probably just going to remove my email from my profile.
It makes me sad as well because as part of the younger generation who scrolls around on here, it feels as if AI is enshittifying the human aspects of what made internet good and I have no recourse of that because I was just born in this era.
Truly sad as I do wonder if I missed some era or was just at the end of its gate closing and I am witnessing the door close because too many roaches are entering from the door.
I just had an idea while writing this but I do wonder if something can be done: suppose that there could be a way of E-mail or some service where you enter your E-mail and it creates another E-mail which can act as an alias.
now for anybody who sends the message to alias, if they want the message to be delivered, (they need some level of human trust that they are human) and they would need to log-in from their HN account and they would need a specific amount of karma that you can set.
So example. you can decide that only people with 1000+ karma or 10k+ words on Hackernews can comment.
(One of my projects actually works on detecting the number of words and you have written 6,56,876 words on Hackernews for reference, so my point is that the filter can be technically possible for both karma/words whichever might be harder to fake, hey plus points if we can see the total number of words and run it through some AI scanner to detect if its AI/human for even more detection though I am unsure its overkill)
just thinking my thoughts out loud as I don't wish this community and its interactions to die, if not for myself then for the next generation just a few years down myself and I would prefer a world where if I invest a bit of time on HN then I can interact with you using E-mail without the problem of spam forcing you to remove your e-mail from the profile.
What do you think of the idea of project that I have thought of: Is it worth pursuing/any feedback?
I've been getting these too. The first paragraph references something I actually wrote, so I read it thinking someone had a follow-up. Then I get to the pitch.
I still like hearing from people who found me through HN. It just sucks that my first instinct now is to skim to the bottom and see what they're selling.
One interesting change for me is I used to have zero time to write personal emails, but due to AI making me a lot more time efficient, I now can and do write personal emails for things I’m just generally interested in, allowing me to create relationships outside my immediate professional or social sphere.
>"It’s like having an amplification attack pointed at you, someone sends 2-3 sentences (sometimes more)"
One light in the crisis is that cybersecurity isn't just in higher demand, but it's starting to be in demand for areas that previously didn't need it. It's not just systems that are under attack, but people.
Pivoting to security is a pretty safe option to not be out of a job these coming years
I've got my own fair share of similar emails this year. I've replied to the only one that seemed human written (and of potential usefulness) to never hear back :D
> Hi Josh, saw your HN comment about [thing you said]. [Compliment.] I’m curious, [open-ended question]?
Why does every sales email talk like this? It doesn't seem like LLM accent, or maybe it's just a different LLM accent from the "programmer" one. It's just funny how instantly recognizable this is as a fake-chummy sales email even despite the brackets.
I posted a job ad here over year ago, and I continue to get REALLY BAD automated spam applying for jobs.
It's not even going as far as using an LLM. It's just a bad e-mail that is obviously sent en masse, where the sender obviously didn't read the job ad.
As far as I can tell, the people are using their real name for this. And sending the same spam multiple times with "nags".
I get that with any public-facing thing you will get a wide spectrum, and I'm picking on the people at the bottom of the spectrum ... but it still makes me a little sad. It would almost be more understandable if they used an LLM !! :-/ :-/
Yeah, it's almost interesting the sophisticated targeted spam I get now, almost definitely automated with llms. Most of it gets my details right except for one that thinks I'm a dentist.
On the other hand the amount of scans on my servers' ssh ports have dropped to about 1/4 since Ukraine started destroying Russian colos.
Its incredibly depressing that LLMs have made so many facets of life strictly worse. Everything is absolutely inundated with slop
I'm mildly hopeful that when text watermarking comes in, we'll be able to automatically filter out all the LLM crap that gets generated currently. It feels like we're in the very early days of email becoming a tool used for mass spam, while we figure out exactly how to deal with that
But cultivating those takes so much time and is geographically limited. The quality is also less, as the pool of people is so much smaller. But I admit, in-person is more rewarding (for me personally, in the longer term).
I'm debating living in a van to have continued geographic flexibility in choosing social interactions of quality.
But there has to be a better way, right?
As for now, I cling dearly to the friends I have. But it's... worrying
Second this, also coming from GitHub too. The nature of the messages has definitely changed. You can find skills out there for abusing HN for marketing purposes. Have pondered making pull requests to add the Guidelines as a way to slip in "don't do this, it breaks the rules" without needing to ask for those words to be merged explicitly.
I may remove my email and force them to go through my discord, but it sucks having to make outreach more difficult because tragedy of the commons.
Yea I have had the same thing and I immediately understood the issue.
We definitely need some way to name and shame such companies.
I had created a HN submission[0] when I had gotten one such message, it was around the rob pike situation (where he got E-mail from AI bots)
I do sure hope that something can happen in terms of naming and shaming them. Also people who are sending these AI generated messages have to realize that they just end up generating a large amount of hate for whoever they are sending the message and it is much better if they wish, to send human generated messages and in a limited manner rather than being a spam machine if they wish to be in the business for a long time.
My only direct submission that has gotten any traction at all [1] has made my life a little annoying. I am now occasionally getting messages from people that want me to pay them money to promote my project.
I don't respond back them to them, but I always want to respond with "dude this was something I vibe coded over the course of a week that almost by definition has no means of monetization", but of course it would be just arguing with a literal machine.
> I don't respond back them to them, but I always want to respond with "dude this was something I vibe coded over the course of a week that almost by definition has no means of monetization", but of course it would be just arguing with a literal machine.
There is such an level of assymetry where it takes us effort to suppose even write such a comment but then we know that its going to a machine so to no avail.
And yet the spam messages still land in the mail so what happens is that we just end up being frustrated without any avail which is just annoying and rage-inducing.
I really do this that we are in the last years of the Internet as we know it. I daily have interactions online with people who just seem like a frontend for an LLM. Nearly every piece of content I read feels written by an LLM, and every discussion or debate ends up feeling like pitting an LLM up against another LLM. Copy, paste, copy, paste. I mean, to an extent, even tech businesses and competition (e.g. SaaS) have become LLM vs LLM in many respects. It's disheartening to witness, especially as a creative. Either we migrate from screen space back into meat space, so that original thoughts and words are at least somewhat more verifiable, or the internet fundamentally changes to use some sort of proof-of-identity and proof-of-authorship. Ideally both. But tbqh, even something like the Nets in Ender's Game won't really work in the age of AI. Either way, the internet I grew up on seems further and further away, and folks seem okay with proliferating fake realities and fake conversations and fake thoughts. It's all fake. What are we doing?
If you're having daily interactions with people who feel like LLMs, then find a new community to hang out in instead. There's plenty of communities out there that reject LLM content. They're not interested in taking over the world, so they're a little harder to find, but they're out there.
Change the word "LLM" to "Wikipedia", and then put most of your concerns to rest.
The very term "meat space" or "meat proxy" were terms invented by the terminally online who needed to disconnect a decade ago. Nobody sane talks or thinks like this.
> Nobody sane talks or thinks like this
Seems mean to me, to outright dismiss what parent says just because you feel like it's different from how you talk or think.
I'd agree though, most people AFK don't speak or think like that, but to say no one ("sane") does is making you seem more intolerant than "spreading knowledge" or whatever you think you're doing.
I've been having a similar problem. I have roughly the same amount of Karma here, and I used to get the occasional email about a comment and I would get kind of excited. I like engaging with people who have similar interests and as a rule I try and answer questions when people ask them of me.
Now I'm getting a lot of emails that ostensibly are asking for follow-ups but they really just want to pitch me a shitty low-effort browser extension or or trying to rope me into some kind of weird "consulting" gig that is pretty obviously a scam.
It makes me a little sad. Engaging with the community was something I always liked about HN and now its gotten to a point where I am probably just going to remove my email from my profile.
Interesting. I might've received my first one of these last week, from a legit-looking gmail address. They mentioned a comment I made a month ago and immediately asked for a 20-30 minute call next week. Definitely has the "please do free labor for me" smell to it, so I declined the call but offered to have a conversation over email. No response so far. Dunno.
> It makes me a little sad. Engaging with the community was something I always liked about HN and now its gotten to a point where I am probably just going to remove my email from my profile.
It makes me sad as well because as part of the younger generation who scrolls around on here, it feels as if AI is enshittifying the human aspects of what made internet good and I have no recourse of that because I was just born in this era.
Truly sad as I do wonder if I missed some era or was just at the end of its gate closing and I am witnessing the door close because too many roaches are entering from the door.
I just had an idea while writing this but I do wonder if something can be done: suppose that there could be a way of E-mail or some service where you enter your E-mail and it creates another E-mail which can act as an alias.
now for anybody who sends the message to alias, if they want the message to be delivered, (they need some level of human trust that they are human) and they would need to log-in from their HN account and they would need a specific amount of karma that you can set.
So example. you can decide that only people with 1000+ karma or 10k+ words on Hackernews can comment.
(One of my projects actually works on detecting the number of words and you have written 6,56,876 words on Hackernews for reference, so my point is that the filter can be technically possible for both karma/words whichever might be harder to fake, hey plus points if we can see the total number of words and run it through some AI scanner to detect if its AI/human for even more detection though I am unsure its overkill)
just thinking my thoughts out loud as I don't wish this community and its interactions to die, if not for myself then for the next generation just a few years down myself and I would prefer a world where if I invest a bit of time on HN then I can interact with you using E-mail without the problem of spam forcing you to remove your e-mail from the profile.
What do you think of the idea of project that I have thought of: Is it worth pursuing/any feedback?
I've been getting these too. The first paragraph references something I actually wrote, so I read it thinking someone had a follow-up. Then I get to the pitch.
I still like hearing from people who found me through HN. It just sucks that my first instinct now is to skim to the bottom and see what they're selling.
Your absolutely right, that is annoying — and that's a keen observation to have made.
Many people don't enjoy getting unsolicited emails without substance. Being annoyed isn't a flaw, it's a strength.
What about it annoys you the most? Is it because of the pitch? Or is it because of the lack of human connection. Let me know.
(joking, hopefully obviously. I typed this with my fingers. It wasn't an AI that wrote it).
Irony can be amusing here, but in this case—at least to me—it just accelerates the very mistrust we’re talking about.
Yeah. I'll add a disclaimer.
I had an “Office Hours” link on my blog to do Google Meets with HN users. It was fun to catch up with strangers.
I had to take it down this month. We have entered a new era of social interaction on the internet.
Were you getting product pitch bookings? Or was it something else?
They were very rare, but it is happening more now. “I was amazed by $PROJECT_I_SCRAPED_FROM_GITHUB and would love to find ways we can collaborate”
[delayed]
[delayed]
One interesting change for me is I used to have zero time to write personal emails, but due to AI making me a lot more time efficient, I now can and do write personal emails for things I’m just generally interested in, allowing me to create relationships outside my immediate professional or social sphere.
>"It’s like having an amplification attack pointed at you, someone sends 2-3 sentences (sometimes more)"
One light in the crisis is that cybersecurity isn't just in higher demand, but it's starting to be in demand for areas that previously didn't need it. It's not just systems that are under attack, but people.
Pivoting to security is a pretty safe option to not be out of a job these coming years
I've got my own fair share of similar emails this year. I've replied to the only one that seemed human written (and of potential usefulness) to never hear back :D
> Hi Josh, saw your HN comment about [thing you said]. [Compliment.] I’m curious, [open-ended question]?
Why does every sales email talk like this? It doesn't seem like LLM accent, or maybe it's just a different LLM accent from the "programmer" one. It's just funny how instantly recognizable this is as a fake-chummy sales email even despite the brackets.
I posted a job ad here over year ago, and I continue to get REALLY BAD automated spam applying for jobs.
It's not even going as far as using an LLM. It's just a bad e-mail that is obviously sent en masse, where the sender obviously didn't read the job ad.
As far as I can tell, the people are using their real name for this. And sending the same spam multiple times with "nags".
I get that with any public-facing thing you will get a wide spectrum, and I'm picking on the people at the bottom of the spectrum ... but it still makes me a little sad. It would almost be more understandable if they used an LLM !! :-/ :-/
Yeah, it's almost interesting the sophisticated targeted spam I get now, almost definitely automated with llms. Most of it gets my details right except for one that thinks I'm a dentist.
On the other hand the amount of scans on my servers' ssh ports have dropped to about 1/4 since Ukraine started destroying Russian colos.
Its incredibly depressing that LLMs have made so many facets of life strictly worse. Everything is absolutely inundated with slop
I'm mildly hopeful that when text watermarking comes in, we'll be able to automatically filter out all the LLM crap that gets generated currently. It feels like we're in the very early days of email becoming a tool used for mass spam, while we figure out exactly how to deal with that
Relying on in person relationships and communication are vastly better if digital channels get saturated with noise.
But cultivating those takes so much time and is geographically limited. The quality is also less, as the pool of people is so much smaller. But I admit, in-person is more rewarding (for me personally, in the longer term).
I'm debating living in a van to have continued geographic flexibility in choosing social interactions of quality.
But there has to be a better way, right?
As for now, I cling dearly to the friends I have. But it's... worrying
I'm hoping my current profile helps with this. Could go either way.
Second this, also coming from GitHub too. The nature of the messages has definitely changed. You can find skills out there for abusing HN for marketing purposes. Have pondered making pull requests to add the Guidelines as a way to slip in "don't do this, it breaks the rules" without needing to ask for those words to be merged explicitly.
I may remove my email and force them to go through my discord, but it sucks having to make outreach more difficult because tragedy of the commons.
Yea I have had the same thing and I immediately understood the issue.
We definitely need some way to name and shame such companies.
I had created a HN submission[0] when I had gotten one such message, it was around the rob pike situation (where he got E-mail from AI bots)
I do sure hope that something can happen in terms of naming and shaming them. Also people who are sending these AI generated messages have to realize that they just end up generating a large amount of hate for whoever they are sending the message and it is much better if they wish, to send human generated messages and in a limited manner rather than being a spam machine if they wish to be in the business for a long time.
[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47590808
I'd be surprised if shaming had any effect. People rarely think it's spam when they're the sender.
My only direct submission that has gotten any traction at all [1] has made my life a little annoying. I am now occasionally getting messages from people that want me to pay them money to promote my project.
I don't respond back them to them, but I always want to respond with "dude this was something I vibe coded over the course of a week that almost by definition has no means of monetization", but of course it would be just arguing with a literal machine.
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49746401
> I don't respond back them to them, but I always want to respond with "dude this was something I vibe coded over the course of a week that almost by definition has no means of monetization", but of course it would be just arguing with a literal machine.
There is such an level of assymetry where it takes us effort to suppose even write such a comment but then we know that its going to a machine so to no avail.
And yet the spam messages still land in the mail so what happens is that we just end up being frustrated without any avail which is just annoying and rage-inducing.